What's Your "Type"?... How the MBTI Became A Token of Corporate Culture

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In the early 1900s, Katherine Briggs created what

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she referred to as a cosmic laboratory of baby training out

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of her Michigan home, a stay at home mother and aspiring writer

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who graduated college first in her class at age 14. She married

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her fellow classmate, Lyman Briggs, and she became

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fascinated with with the concept of self actualization after the

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birth of her daughter, Isabel. Little did she know that what

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started as a tool to document the growth of her daughter would

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soon become a multi million dollar industry and a token of

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corporate culture as we know it today. Hello, and welcome back

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to Walton BizTalk, a student run podcast where we have casual

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conversations about professional things. This podcast is powered

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by the business communication lab at the SAM and Walton

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College of Business. I'm your host, Savannah Rubino. And this

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season, we're taking a crash course into empathy, and how it

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has become the ultimate business buzzword. Now I want to

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introduce my co host here, Gracie. Hi, Gracie, would you

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mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself why

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you wanted to join this project? And maybe a little bit about

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what you do at the PCL? Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Gracie

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like Savannah said, I am a graduate tutor at the business

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communication lab. I mean, English PhD students. So that's

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been very interesting to like, think of writing in a business

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way versus like an academic way. Yeah. And I really, to be

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honest, I just think podcasting is very, very cool. And I hope

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to incorporate podcasting into my dissertation project. So

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yeah, that's a little bit about me. Can you tell us a little

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bit, I'm curious to know a little bit more about your

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dissertation project. Give, I could literally talk for like 45

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minutes about it. So I am a Victorian so which means I do

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19th century British literature, but I also do Neo Victorian

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literature. And primarily, my focus is in Jack the Ripper

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fiction, gender lens on that it's actually really funny

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without sounds kind of creepy. No, that actually sounds so

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interesting. So this is Gracie. This is one of our new co hosts.

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And Gracie, I'm so happy that you're here with us on the very

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first episode of the season, I wanted to kind of introduce the

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season because we are talking about empathy, which I think has

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really become you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, it

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was kind of like, here's this new transition into a more

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empathetic society, is it going to stay is it going to go and

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now it's really become something that I think a lot of businesses

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are seeing as sink or swim. We see like the great resignation

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now. And it's really like, if you can't provide an experience

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to your employees, that is under an environment that's

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understanding conscious and empathetic like we're talking

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about, then they will find it elsewhere. So today, I wanted to

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talk a little bit about the Myers Briggs Personality Test.

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And I kind of had a little bit of an opening with it. But this

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test is very interesting to me. I think it's something that we

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can use to really understand each other. And I wanted to talk

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a little bit about it with the theme being empathy in the

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workplace, because it's actually used by a lot of different

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companies. And I think we've all I think it's something everyone

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has heard of, Gracie, I'm curious to know, what was your

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initial understanding of the Myers Briggs tests? Well, it was

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actually interesting, because when I was talking to my parents

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about what the theme was, and I said, Oh, yeah, we're talking

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about personality tests. And using those in businesses. My

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stepdad told me that his business does actually use. I

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don't think he uses the Myers Briggs but it's some sort of

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personality test, and they actually post outside of each

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individual's office, like what color they are or what there's

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personality type. So I've heard of him using it. And to be

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honest, I kind of associated it with something like astrology.

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Or just like a fun thing. You know, I'm a Scorpio I'm a you

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know, whatever, oh, this

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is Scorpio. I know. Very Scorpio very Scorpio. Um, so I guess

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this is the time where we kind of talk about our little

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experiment in the VCL. So prior to this recording, we actually

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had everyone in the lab, take a personality test and I will say

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I was very surprised because I want to say, what do we have

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like 10 or 11 people in the office? I want to say about

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seven or eight of those people were either INFJ or Ian Jade,

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the majority of them being ENFJ. And I do want to say this

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podcast comes to you by two INFJ. So I'm an INFJ Grace's an

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INFJ. And did you think you were gonna get this personality type,

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too? Oh, so I will talk about this a little bit later. But

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I've taken this test before. And I think I got something a little

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bit different. Like, I think it said I was thinking rather than

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feeling. But to be honest, I wasn't super surprised, because

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I know that I'm introverted. I know that I have, oftentimes

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focus on feeling rather than thinking. So I wasn't super

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surprised by the test. But I did think was interesting, because I

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did, I did have different results last time I took it. I

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think that's interesting that you say that, because

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researching the Myers Briggs, like on their website, they they

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do kind of talk about, it can change a little bit. I know, I

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think my mom was saying before, that she's taken it a few times.

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And as she's grown older, it's changed a little bit. And I

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think that can be expected just with like, the different Myers

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Briggs does recognize that like, things like your experiences and

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how you were raised, and that sort of thing can definitely

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inspire who you are as well, and that you're an INFJ. I'm an

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INFJ. And it can manifest very differently for two different

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people. I do think it's interesting to that like that

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there is a majority and the BCL Yeah, I wonder if that's because

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we're have similar personality. So we're attracted to like the

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same kind of job or something. But it doesn't, it doesn't

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surprise me that we're all very similar, though. Yeah. So that

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kind of leads me to the next sort of question is, before we

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dive into, like, the history, the science, the methodology of

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this test, I kind of want to ask, in the workplace, and I

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know we have a little bit of like, a more niche workplace.

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But in in the normal business workplace, do you think that

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there are certain traits in the Myers Briggs that are more

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valued than others? And this is just something we can kind of

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talk about a little bit before we get into the research? Yeah,

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I mean, so um, I also teach at the university and I feel like

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to be a good teacher, you have to be extroverted in certain

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ways. And so I feel like that is valued more. And as an

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introvert, like I don't naturally want to be an

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extrovert, but I can perform extraversion whenever I need to,

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whenever I teach kind of thing. So yeah, I think that there's,

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there's a greater value often put on someone that is more

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assertive, which we often associated with extroverts. I

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think, like you said, it like depends on what job you have.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly. And especially in the in the

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business workplace. I'm talking about the thinking versus

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feeling. I definitely feel like the corporate America values,

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you know, what are the actual facts here? What's the hard

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evidence, and not so much like the feeling and intuitiveness?

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And that's something that maybe is changing a little bit today,

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I don't really know. It'll be interesting to kind of like,

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look back on this time, and see how attitudes have changed

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towards decision making business and whether they do value

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feeling a little bit more. Because sometimes that gut

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instinct can be can tell you just as much as like, the facts,

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which, which sounds weird, but I think being a leader, you

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definitely need to possess a little bit of both of those. So

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I guess this is where we can kind of segue into the history

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of the MBTI. So Gracie, I'm just going to go through like a brief

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history of how this came to be. So I talked a little bit about

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Katherine Briggs story. Katherine Briggs Myers is her

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name. So Catherine, grew up in the late 1800s. And in the early

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1900s, she became enamored with the study of children's growth

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and development. And she really sought to discover like the best

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best methods to raise children. She actually would start working

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with like children in the neighborhood. This was something

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she was really passionate about. And I looked, I looked it up. I

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had

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mentioned this before she graduated at age 14 from College

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College, which is insane, like, this is a very, she's kind of

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ingenious, and genuine, and genius, and genius and genius,

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genius. Smart. She's smart. And this is also a time where women

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really weren't seen as like an asset in the workplace or

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really, they didn't have a place in business all it was kind of

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expected that you know her her husband was this famous

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physicist and she was expected to be the homemaker and she had

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so many passions and all this knowledge she was like I said,

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an aspiring writer. She would start Studying in 1923, Crowley

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yells word work, specifically Psychological Types. So this

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kind of birth, the idea of her classifying herself, and those

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around her. And this wouldn't really get too far until her

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daughter kind of became interested in this. So growing

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up, Isabel, Catherine's daughter was she, she knew of the

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language, she knew of the theories, but she really wasn't

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interested in it as much as her mother. But, um, as she would

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become a mother herself, she became interested in personality

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types. And so this kind of started around the 1940s. In

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World War Two, when society becomes so eager to be it's a

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play some role in the war. So this is when Isabel discovers

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the hums Whad worth temperament scale, which is a mouthful. But

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this is a tool that helps place people in the right line of

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work. And this was super important back then, because

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everyone wanted to be a part of something, something to better

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society at this point. So this has I looked it up, and it

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measures your motivation through characteristics, it really

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doesn't give too much information, which it was just

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like it gave you like, I'm not exactly sure how it measures

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like what if asked questions, or what but I was kind of looking

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through it. And I guess it matches you with like a type,

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like, how if you're an ENFJ, or INFJ, I believe you have like a

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certain game, like the thinker or magician or something like

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that. So it kind of matches you like that. But it will also tell

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you like what motivates you, and that kind of helps place people

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where I guess they would be best fitted in the place of work. So

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with the help and knowledge of her mother is about creates this

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172 Question assessment, which is so many questions, I didn't

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know it was that many too many for me, yeah, um, which is the

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form A as we know it today of the Myers Briggs Personality

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Type test. And she would really be getting commercializing this

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prototype. Her first client is none other than the Office of

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Strategic Services. So the government. And so this, the

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government had a group of wartime cycle cycle cycle

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psychologists who wanted to match covert operatives, to the

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Secret Missions best suited to their personalities during World

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War Two. So looking more into this, they were literally using

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this test to place spies on secret missions. That is really

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cool. So I didn't know much about this test, but like

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learning that I feel like anything government related,

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just kind of like, it has to give it some sort of

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credibility, right? Maybe not in this day and age, but it did.

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Yeah. Um, so that, shortly after the test will make its way into

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academia. And it will be administered to students at

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George Washington University, and then it starts being used

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pretty often with medical school programs to help people get

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matched up to what metal medical school, they would be best. play

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sax. And then in 1957, Isabel gets a chance to actually

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publish the indicator. But she would actually sign a new

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contract in 1975, with a smaller company that better saw her

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vision like this first contract, I guess they just didn't really

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see eye to eye. And the ideas start to spread to wellness

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centers and hospitals among the clergy. So this is like it's

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just pretty much creeping up everywhere at this point. And it

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wasn't until the 1980s, that corporations became heavily

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involved with the MBTI. So NPR, According to NPR, this is kind

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of like when the corporate culture shifts, we start to see

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this new push to try to help workers figure out how what they

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love to do and how to be content doing their work as they are at

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home. And Gracie, you did a little bit of research on what

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this kind of looks like today. Correct.

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So can you tell us a little bit about like, How can companies

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use this today? Yeah, first, can I say that? Like, regardless of

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what you think of the test, these two women are super cool.

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Yeah. Being women in the in the 20th century, and kind of like

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doing all of this stuff. So I just think that's awesome. Yeah,

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so today, one in every five fortune 1000 companies use it

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and the hiring process. And for most of my research, people use

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it in the hiring process. Like I said, team building exercises,

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leadership training, management and kind of things like that.

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consulting firms use it and JetBlue has also used it before

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so it's, it's like super prevalent in the way that

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businesses is run today. So still very significant. Yeah,

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what's interesting too, is that I was talking to you. And I know

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you agree with me on this when we were doing research for this

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podcast, you can find all the companies that use it, you can

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not find literally anything about how they use it like

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specifically how they use it. So is this like some I don't know

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if this is something corporate secret, or what? It's just a

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little bit. I don't know if it's just difficult to find on the

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internet, or if companies don't make this stuff public. But we

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could find out like, kind of the general idea of how they use

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this test, but not too much about the specifics. Or if they,

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like, look back on the tests, and if they do, like training

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with the test and that sort of thing. Did you kind of like see

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that? You know, I did? Yeah, it was early? Yes, I did see that.

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Because it's all seem very vague. Like leadership training

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could mean a lot of different things. And I mean, it's

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interesting, too, that the, the actual Myer Briggs, like tests,

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the website warns people against using it for stuff like hiring,

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but people or companies are still using it for things like

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that. But yeah, it seems to be very vague. So I don't know if

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it's just, it's like, yeah, I'm not sure why, but it does seem

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very vague. Yeah. And now that we know a little bit about how

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it's been used in the past how it's been used today, I want to

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talk a little bit about like the methodology behind the test,

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because I would say science, but there's actually a lot of,

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there's not a lot of credibility. So we'll get a

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little bit more into that. But first, I want to talk about what

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each letter means. So it's a four letter and matches up to

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like four different letters. And the idea is that these questions

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are kind of like self electing, which there's a little bit um,

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it's definitely pretty subjective. I don't know if

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there's any objective part of it at all. So it kind of makes me

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think, you know, if someone else were to do the questionnaire for

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you, yeah, we may come up with a completely different, but the

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idea is that you know, yourself best. So, first we have this is

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from 16 personalities. So the first aspect that we have is

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mind. And this is how we interact with our surroundings.

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And it's the introversion versus extraversion. And then we have

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the energy aspects. So this is how we see the world and process

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information. That is observant, which is the S versus intuitive,

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which, which is then. And then we have nature, which is how we

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make decisions and cope with emotions, that is thinking

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versus feeling. And finally, we have tactics. This is how we

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work plan and make decisions. Which seems a little bit similar

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to thinking versus feeling but this is judging versus

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perceiving. So let's get into grace tea. Can you tell us a

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little bit about the pros and the cons of the test? Yeah, so

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like you were saying, there seems to be a lot of controversy

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or question over the validity, the scientific validity of this

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test. But I did find several websites that really advocated

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for it using it in the in the business world. So some pros to

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using something like this is when you're making a team and

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you're deciding who to pair up with whom. If you know their

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personality types or their hybrid personality types, then

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presumably you would know who would work well with who? So us

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to introverts, like probably work well together. Right? I

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would I would say, you think I think I think we're doing okay,

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right? Yeah. And it also helps with things like communication.

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So if I know that, you know, you're more of a feeling person,

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maybe I would, I would communicate things to you a

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little bit more empathetically, right. Speaking of empathy,

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it's also stuff like motivation. So specific types are supposed

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to have kind of specific motivation. So for instance, if

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someone is more logical and more thinking, than if I asked them

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to do something, I'd give them the logical reasons for doing

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it. Right. Or if someone's if someone's more feeling, I maybe

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would give you more positive feedback, or something like

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that. It's good for mitigating conflict and being more

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efficient. Again, this is all assuming that like, these tests

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can actually tell us truly who we are, and how we interact with

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the world around us. And stuff like leadership training, right?

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And just being a better leader by understanding the way that

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your employees or the way that your employees are working are,

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how they respond. What one Pro that I found that I that I

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really think is something important to consider is that

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regardless of the scientific validity Have this test, what it

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does do is give us understandable language that we

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can use to talk about ourselves and others. So like I would,

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even before this test, I would have identified as an introvert.

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And if I was introducing myself to someone, I'd be like, I'm an

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introvert, and they would know what introversion is, right? So

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it gives us like a language that we already are all at least

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somewhat aware of, to talk about ourselves. So those are the

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those are the pros and the cons. And before you get to the cons,

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I do want to say that, like, I really appreciate that last pro

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as well, because I think it's kind of like the first,

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especially in the business world, it gives us a way to

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describe and understand others in a positive way, instead of a

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negative way. So like, for example, if you're gonna say,

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oh, that client was very chatty, you know, you would say, the

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clients very extroverted, I'm going to match her with this

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salesperson, because they're both the personalities, they're

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going to hit it off. So I do really appreciate that too.

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Going and go ahead with the cons. This is really

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interesting. I know. This was like, fascinating, because I've

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never done any research about this before. But I've heard

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people, you know, everyone, like I said, like, what's your

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personality type? Like, what's your zodiac sign? Right? What's

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your Enneagram? Yeah, all of that stuff? Again, it's like

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that language that we're all aware of, and that we all use.

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Yeah. So some of the some of the, the question, questionable

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aspects of this, particularly this test, but a lot of

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personality tests in general, are that you'll get inconsistent

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results. So I think I said earlier, when I took this test,

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like two years ago, I did get something different. And of

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course, like we can respond to it. Well, I've probably changed

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since two years ago. But you know, a valid scientific test

Unknown: 00:21:50

would probably come up with the same or similar results every

Unknown: 00:21:54

time there's anything. And then I also found that there's not

Unknown: 00:21:58

actually a verified connection between job performance and like

Unknown: 00:22:03

how people are what type people are. So just because someone's

Unknown: 00:22:08

extroverted doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to

Unknown: 00:22:10

perform well in a sales position. And then traits,

Unknown: 00:22:15

traits are lumped together on a continuum that shouldn't be so

Unknown: 00:22:18

like, thinking and feeling, the way the test has it is it's

Unknown: 00:22:23

you're either thinking or you're either feeling, and it kind of

Unknown: 00:22:26

puts those things on a continuum, when those two things

Unknown: 00:22:29

aren't actually that separate. Like, I can think about

Unknown: 00:22:32

something and feel very strongly about it, but then go back and

Unknown: 00:22:35

be able to reflect on it later. And then also, the final thing

Unknown: 00:22:40

that I found was that it doesn't actually accept assess emotional

Unknown: 00:22:43

stability versus reactivity. So for example, I am, I am the

Unknown: 00:22:48

personality type that has a lot of stress, which you are, too,

Unknown: 00:22:52

because we're the same personality types. Um, and which

Unknown: 00:22:55

was not surprising, because I, I knew that not here, either. I

Unknown: 00:22:58

knew that about myself. But the problem is, is that, okay, maybe

Unknown: 00:23:03

I get really, really stressed, but maybe I'm good at taking

Unknown: 00:23:07

five minutes, to be really, really stressed. And then to

Unknown: 00:23:11

think about it to logically, rationale, like, this is what I

Unknown: 00:23:16

need to do in order to mitigate that stress. If the test doesn't

Unknown: 00:23:20

doesn't test, emotional stability versus how we actually

Unknown: 00:23:23

react to the stressors, right? That makes sense. Yeah. Um,

Unknown: 00:23:27

so of course, someone could be, I kind of like how you talked

Unknown: 00:23:32

about the, that is kind of like a spectrum. Because even reading

Unknown: 00:23:35

over the results of when everyone sent me their

Unknown: 00:23:39

personality types in the lab, there would be a few where it

Unknown: 00:23:42

would say extroverted and they were like 51%, extroverted and

Unknown: 00:23:45

49%. introverted. So it's really like, it really doesn't take any

Unknown: 00:23:50

of those things into account. And I think that, on the other

Unknown: 00:23:55

hand, you can say that the test does make you aware of like what

Unknown: 00:23:59

your strengths are, and then you can figure out, okay, if I'm

Unknown: 00:24:02

extroverted, and I'm really, or I'm really intuitive, maybe I

Unknown: 00:24:07

can work on using a little bit more logic when I make decision

Unknown: 00:24:11

making. So I guess you could kind of spend that a little bit.

Unknown: 00:24:14

And I will acknowledge that, like, we looked over the Myers

Unknown: 00:24:17

Briggs website, and they did address a lot of these concerns.

Unknown: 00:24:21

And they were actually a very mindful of like some of the

Unknown: 00:24:25

ethical implications, which is what we're going to move on to

Unknown: 00:24:27

now. So Gracie did a little bit more research on that as well.

Unknown: 00:24:32

Yeah, I noticed that. I noticed that too, because as I was doing

Unknown: 00:24:35

the research, I was like, well, this seems a little biased or to

Unknown: 00:24:39

one side. And I wonder how Myers Briggs would actually respond to

Unknown: 00:24:43

these criticisms. And like you said, they they already

Unknown: 00:24:45

anticipate the criticisms on their website. So for instance,

Unknown: 00:24:49

I got this from the Myobrace website. Under their ethics

Unknown: 00:24:53

policies, they and this is for people that are administering

Unknown: 00:24:56

the test and using it that way. They say It's unethical and in

Unknown: 00:25:01

many cases illegal to require job applicants to take the

Unknown: 00:25:04

indicator if the results will be used to screen applicants, the

Unknown: 00:25:08

administrator should not counsel a person to or away from a

Unknown: 00:25:10

particular career, personal relationship or activity based

Unknown: 00:25:14

solely upon type information. So the website tells you like, you

Unknown: 00:25:19

can't, you shouldn't use this for hiring purposes. Even if a

Unknown: 00:25:23

company does the website acknowledges that you should.

Unknown: 00:25:26

They also stress that type does not imply excellence competence

Unknown: 00:25:30

or natural ability only what is preferred. So they do

Unknown: 00:25:34

acknowledge that, okay, maybe I am an introvert, I'm naturally

Unknown: 00:25:37

that way. But I can be an extrovert, whatever I have to.

Unknown: 00:25:42

And then they finally say that the person administering it

Unknown: 00:25:47

needs to explain how people can and do act in ways contrary to

Unknown: 00:25:50

their preferences, because of personal history, education,

Unknown: 00:25:53

training and experience. And also, you know, sometimes too,

Unknown: 00:25:58

because of pressure that, and so this kind of goes in with the

Unknown: 00:26:04

socialization aspect of the ethical implications. So what

Unknown: 00:26:09

the test doesn't acknowledge is that certain people are

Unknown: 00:26:13

socialized with certain traits. So like, as women, we're

Unknown: 00:26:18

socialized to be less assertive. And the test doesn't really take

Unknown: 00:26:22

that into account. In different cultures value, assertiveness

Unknown: 00:26:27

and introversion, differently. I know you did some research on

Unknown: 00:26:31

that. I did, because I actually have a book, it may sound a

Unknown: 00:26:35

little bit nerdy, but I have this book called introvert

Unknown: 00:26:37

power. And I remembered that the author had talked a little bit

Unknown: 00:26:42

about how here in America extra extraversion is highly, highly

Unknown: 00:26:49

valued, and we see it everywhere and workplace. Networking is

Unknown: 00:26:53

highly valued, especially in corporate culture, and

Unknown: 00:26:56

connecting with people small talk, like everywhere you go,

Unknown: 00:26:59

you're kind of, and I thought it was interesting that you we

Unknown: 00:27:02

mentioned a couple times, Gracie, or you mentioned earlier

Unknown: 00:27:05

on in the podcast, that you're introverted, but you know how to

Unknown: 00:27:08

be an extrovert. And it's kind of cool that we have just taught

Unknown: 00:27:13

ourselves how to do that, even though that's not really the way

Unknown: 00:27:17

that we naturally are. And that's I would attribute a

Unknown: 00:27:20

little bit of that too, or maybe even a lot of that to the

Unknown: 00:27:24

culture that we grew up in. So I want to take a little bit to

Unknown: 00:27:27

talk about countries like Sweden, and Japan, that have

Unknown: 00:27:31

historically valued introversion instead of extraversion as a

Unknown: 00:27:37

leadership quality. So if we look kind of like at the

Unknown: 00:27:41

countries

Unknown: 00:27:42

who are historically more extroverted, and then those who

Unknown: 00:27:48

are more introverted, we can kind of see this through the

Unknown: 00:27:51

lens of cultures that are more individualistic, and then those

Unknown: 00:27:56

that are more collective. So I want to take a moment to talk

Unknown: 00:27:59

about Sweden, I did a little bit of research about this. And it's

Unknown: 00:28:05

so crazy to me how different society works there. And here's

Unknown: 00:28:11

a few things that I found. So first, small talk is kept to a

Unknown: 00:28:14

minimum. And it was actually named the worst place in the

Unknown: 00:28:18

world for foreigners to make friends, because everyone just

Unknown: 00:28:21

keeps to themselves so often, and it's not to be rude. And

Unknown: 00:28:25

maybe I'm portrayed that way if you're a foreigner, and you come

Unknown: 00:28:29

to visit, but it's just kind of the way that things work here.

Unknown: 00:28:32

Like, I think I like that. Yeah. And it's even like, we have a

Unknown: 00:28:38

little bit of that here in the US because we have so many

Unknown: 00:28:40

different people speak different dialects and just have different

Unknown: 00:28:44

cultural, like customs and that sort of thing. So if someone

Unknown: 00:28:50

were to come from the south and go to the north, north, I know a

Unknown: 00:28:53

lot of people say New Yorkers are so mean, and it's just

Unknown: 00:28:56

they're not there. It's not necessarily that they're mean,

Unknown: 00:28:59

they just don't have that southern hospitality that maybe

Unknown: 00:29:01

you're used to here. Yeah, yeah. So um, despite the fact that it

Unknown: 00:29:07

was named the worst place in the world for foreigners to make

Unknown: 00:29:09

friends. The Nordic countries are known for their high quality

Unknown: 00:29:14

of life, and they attract a lot of expats. So they have this

Unknown: 00:29:18

saying, which is Logam magome. And this means not too much, not

Unknown: 00:29:23

too little. And this is kind of like how they live. So the idea

Unknown: 00:29:26

is that in business, you'll be outgoing, but not enough to the

Unknown: 00:29:31

point where it's obnoxious because they see you coming off

Unknown: 00:29:35

as a little bit selfish or just a little bit too much if you're

Unknown: 00:29:39

being too outgoing. I kind of it I kind of read this as reading

Unknown: 00:29:45

the room and simply being able to read the room. And that's

Unknown: 00:29:49

something that they say there I guess. I also found that they

Unknown: 00:29:52

have the highest proportion of single properties, and they have

Unknown: 00:29:57

a 15% unemployment rate. which continues to creep up. And many,

Unknown: 00:30:04

many people say that this is because building a network, let

Unknown: 00:30:09

alone finding a job is more difficult because the country

Unknown: 00:30:12

has this like introverted nature. So they actually have

Unknown: 00:30:15

apps kind of like LinkedIn, I guess I would say. But these are

Unknown: 00:30:18

more to connect employers with. Individual contractors, and a

Unknown: 00:30:27

lot of people are a part of the startup community, community,

Unknown: 00:30:30

our individual contractors, a lot of people just kind of have

Unknown: 00:30:36

their own place of work that they're like is it's not really

Unknown: 00:30:41

like you're working for a corporation as much. And I found

Unknown: 00:30:44

that interesting that they have such a big startup community,

Unknown: 00:30:47

because they're very innovative, despite being I guess, socially,

Unknown: 00:30:52

a little bit introverted, introverted, and a little bit

Unknown: 00:30:55

isolated. But yeah, these are kind of what I found. And I, I

Unknown: 00:30:59

think it's so interesting that like, they're using technology

Unknown: 00:31:02

as sort of like a buffer to close the gaps between so like,

Unknown: 00:31:07

where they can't. Or I guess they have gaps in their society

Unknown: 00:31:13

that the human contact, tap, the human contact, like the in

Unknown: 00:31:17

person contacts can't really fix, they kind of bridge the gap

Unknown: 00:31:21

with the technology, which I feel like, I didn't have to not

Unknown: 00:31:25

to take us to off topic. But I feel like that's what we've had

Unknown: 00:31:28

to do since COVID, is come up with these different digital

Unknown: 00:31:31

ways to create a community. So like having zoom happy hour or

Unknown: 00:31:36

something which comes with its own negatives, because it's, I

Unknown: 00:31:39

mean, Zoom exhaustion is an absolute real thing. Yeah. But I

Unknown: 00:31:44

think that that's cool, too. And I do think that, I don't know

Unknown: 00:31:47

that we've had to start doing more of that since COVID. And

Unknown: 00:31:51

probably, we're gonna have to keep doing that. Yeah. And it's

Unknown: 00:31:55

interesting that you kind of talk about the Zoom happy hours,

Unknown: 00:31:57

and like the digital society that we kind of have going on,

Unknown: 00:32:00

because we're going to have an episode about the metaverse here

Unknown: 00:32:04

later in the semester, and virtual empathy. But to kind of

Unknown: 00:32:10

wrap things up, we talked a little bit about the history, we

Unknown: 00:32:14

talked a little bit about our own personality types, and what

Unknown: 00:32:17

we can connect with and what don't really resonate with. And

Unknown: 00:32:22

then we talked a little bit about the ethical implications,

Unknown: 00:32:24

but I kind of just want to go back to square one and talk

Unknown: 00:32:27

about why this is all relevant to us talked about the sink or

Unknown: 00:32:30

swim idea that like, you really have to be on board with empathy

Unknown: 00:32:34

and leading with empathy, otherwise, people will find it

Unknown: 00:32:37

somewhere

Unknown: 00:32:38

else. So I guess, after learning all that I have about the Myers

Unknown: 00:32:44

Briggs test. Am I going to say that it's like the most

Unknown: 00:32:48

knowledgeable tool in the world and the most credible tool in

Unknown: 00:32:53

the world to use to better understand the people that are

Unknown: 00:32:56

around you know, but as someone who is an astrology girl, I know

Unknown: 00:33:04

that going into it. So I guess, Gracie, you can tell me your

Unknown: 00:33:08

thoughts. But I really just see this as more of a fun thing,

Unknown: 00:33:14

like as long as you're using this tool as a way to connect

Unknown: 00:33:18

with others and not to separate others, then, and even the Myers

Unknown: 00:33:22

Briggs website acknowledged that it really comes down to what you

Unknown: 00:33:27

want out of it. Yeah, I think I think I agree. I, I still feel

Unknown: 00:33:32

like I'm changing my mind. Like, the more I think about it, I do

Unknown: 00:33:37

think it's probably unethical to use in hiring practices. And

Unknown: 00:33:41

again, Myer Briggs says that they say that in their website,

Unknown: 00:33:46

but I think it's fun to like, I think it's it's a fun way to

Unknown: 00:33:50

say, This is who I am, even if you know, maybe it's not

Unknown: 00:33:54

entirely scientifically accurate, but it's fun to say,

Unknown: 00:33:57

I'm an intp F. J. And then that's

Unknown: 00:34:01

something you can automatically relate with someone. Exactly.

Unknown: 00:34:05

And it's, it's just like that. That's a fun thing.

Unknown: 00:34:08

Yeah. Because I know that I'm a Scorpio I don't know exactly

Unknown: 00:34:12

what that means. But it's fun to tell people that I'm a Scorpio.

Unknown: 00:34:15

Yeah. So. But yeah, I think like you said, using it as a way to

Unknown: 00:34:18

connect and build personal relationships. Right. And like

Unknown: 00:34:22

not using it to separate I think, yeah, I think I agree

Unknown: 00:34:25

with that. Yeah, so that about sums it up for this episode. If

Unknown: 00:34:29

you want to reach out to us on our social media, let us know

Unknown: 00:34:33

what your personality type is and if you relate to that, but

Unknown: 00:34:38

if you like what you heard, please download and subscribe

Unknown: 00:34:41

wherever you get your podcasts. While you're at it. Go ahead and

Unknown: 00:34:44

follow us on Instagram at Wharton. Biz talk and also at

Unknown: 00:34:48

Pat Walton BCL that's all for this week and next week. We will